Tuesday, February 26, 2008
The Way I See It #280
"You can learn a lot more from listening than you can from talking. Find someone with whom you don't agree in the slightest and ask them to explain themselves at length. Then take a seat, shut your mouth, and don't argue back. It's physically impossible to listen with your mouth open."-John Moe
Tuesday, February 05, 2008
alcohol and a Christian concert
this is from david crowder's blog. while not sure who actually wrote it (different band members tend to post), it's funny. he's responding to various questions people had been asking. first the question then the remaining is the response from dave including reasons why they embarked on the "remedy club tour".
"question 6: “i went to the show in cincinatti and there was alcohol being served. i was shocked that it was being served at a christian concert. can you tell me why it was being served?”
yes. i’m pretty sure that the bar was selling alcohol because it is a bar and that’s what bars sell. they typically like to make money and so they buy things, such as beers, from a distributor for a certain price and then mark it up to sell to people so that they will get a profit and get to pay their employees and get to stay open and such. alcohol is usually a pretty big seller for bars. i am sorry this was shocking.
i might add, both historically and currently, there are many people who love jesus, and follow him, that also enjoy alcohol regularly. if you have not encountered these people first hand, you should attempt to enlarge your peer circle and i think you’ll get a clearer picture of the diversity of the body of christ. there are denominations and traditions that denounce alcohol, and there are those that condone it. these beliefs are typically culturally specific and attached to a particular sect's interpretations of a few particular passages in scripture. i should state here that we, as a band and as individuals, do not, in any way, condone drunkenness, as it is stupid, nor under-aged drinking as it is also stupid and against the law, and trust that those in attendance at various dates on our club tour are intelligent enough to arrive at both of these conclusions as well. it is not very difficult to observe the damaging effects of abusing alcohol. it is simple that way; abuse it, it abuses you back, most of the time immediately.
(an aside: in my experience, most conversations about alcohol with those who adamantly reject it as a possible beverage choice, present that it could cause a brother to stumble. this is awful logic. apply this logic to various food items ordered at your next public meal. there will doubtlessly be present various numbers of people who struggle with obesity or high cholesterol or heart disease, who would really love one of your cheesesticks. there will also be those present who are vegetarian, myself included, who are attempting to not ingest meat. i’m sure you see the trouble with this line of thinking. this was the very argument that peter and paul were having regarding idol meat. i will not attempt further argument here since there is plenty to find out there, if one were truly curious, that would present things in a much more scholarly and organized manner than i could hope to present it. i will also state here that i shall not require you to cease your carnivorous ways while sharing a restaurant with me.)
and finally, i should state the reasons we went on a tour that had as its venues bars and clubs exclusively. we wished for the story of god to be experienced beyond the safety of our cloistered church environments. it was our deep hope that many who would not frequent a bar would come join us and experience the reality of the presence of god in an environment that they might not typically suspect to experience such a thing in. we believe, if we are reading scripture correctly, that once the veil was torn, that in an instant, suddenly, god was everywhere. the symbolism and consequences of this moment are epic! the way human beings access the maker of heaven and earth were forever changed. suddenly, once and for all, through the ultimate sacrificial offering, suddenly, he is everywhere. every second is lived in the very presence of god. there is no moment that is not holy. there is no space that is not sacred. it is the awareness of our reality that shifts, not this reality. therefore, all that is needed is for our awareness to change and we begin to view spaces and people and cultures and music and art and eating and drinking and sleeping and waking as moments and spaces and places where god is already active and present. our hope on this tour was to give people a physical, tangible experience of this reality."
greater things have yet to come, greater things are still to be done in this city.
cheers
"question 6: “i went to the show in cincinatti and there was alcohol being served. i was shocked that it was being served at a christian concert. can you tell me why it was being served?”
yes. i’m pretty sure that the bar was selling alcohol because it is a bar and that’s what bars sell. they typically like to make money and so they buy things, such as beers, from a distributor for a certain price and then mark it up to sell to people so that they will get a profit and get to pay their employees and get to stay open and such. alcohol is usually a pretty big seller for bars. i am sorry this was shocking.
i might add, both historically and currently, there are many people who love jesus, and follow him, that also enjoy alcohol regularly. if you have not encountered these people first hand, you should attempt to enlarge your peer circle and i think you’ll get a clearer picture of the diversity of the body of christ. there are denominations and traditions that denounce alcohol, and there are those that condone it. these beliefs are typically culturally specific and attached to a particular sect's interpretations of a few particular passages in scripture. i should state here that we, as a band and as individuals, do not, in any way, condone drunkenness, as it is stupid, nor under-aged drinking as it is also stupid and against the law, and trust that those in attendance at various dates on our club tour are intelligent enough to arrive at both of these conclusions as well. it is not very difficult to observe the damaging effects of abusing alcohol. it is simple that way; abuse it, it abuses you back, most of the time immediately.
(an aside: in my experience, most conversations about alcohol with those who adamantly reject it as a possible beverage choice, present that it could cause a brother to stumble. this is awful logic. apply this logic to various food items ordered at your next public meal. there will doubtlessly be present various numbers of people who struggle with obesity or high cholesterol or heart disease, who would really love one of your cheesesticks. there will also be those present who are vegetarian, myself included, who are attempting to not ingest meat. i’m sure you see the trouble with this line of thinking. this was the very argument that peter and paul were having regarding idol meat. i will not attempt further argument here since there is plenty to find out there, if one were truly curious, that would present things in a much more scholarly and organized manner than i could hope to present it. i will also state here that i shall not require you to cease your carnivorous ways while sharing a restaurant with me.)
and finally, i should state the reasons we went on a tour that had as its venues bars and clubs exclusively. we wished for the story of god to be experienced beyond the safety of our cloistered church environments. it was our deep hope that many who would not frequent a bar would come join us and experience the reality of the presence of god in an environment that they might not typically suspect to experience such a thing in. we believe, if we are reading scripture correctly, that once the veil was torn, that in an instant, suddenly, god was everywhere. the symbolism and consequences of this moment are epic! the way human beings access the maker of heaven and earth were forever changed. suddenly, once and for all, through the ultimate sacrificial offering, suddenly, he is everywhere. every second is lived in the very presence of god. there is no moment that is not holy. there is no space that is not sacred. it is the awareness of our reality that shifts, not this reality. therefore, all that is needed is for our awareness to change and we begin to view spaces and people and cultures and music and art and eating and drinking and sleeping and waking as moments and spaces and places where god is already active and present. our hope on this tour was to give people a physical, tangible experience of this reality."
greater things have yet to come, greater things are still to be done in this city.
cheers
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)